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When Jonathan Dekel-Chen goes to Washington these days—and he goes to Washington a lot —he brings photos. Mostly of his 35-year-old son, Sagui. He wishes he could bring more.

A lot of the photos that we’ve had for Sagui and from my other kids and grandkids were burned on Oct. 7,” Dekel-Chen said. “It was not just a murderous rampage and hostage taking, it was full scale looting and destruction.”

Dekel-Chen and his son are American citizens. But they lived on an Israeli kibbutz, Nir Oz. When Hamas fighters invaded, Nir Oz was one of the first places they went. Sagui has been missing ever since.

“I’d love to share all kinds of photos: him as a little boy, as a baseball player. He was one of the few Israelis who actually knows how to play baseball by virtue of my addiction to the sport. And he bought into it, thank goodness, when he was a boy, so I’d have a playmate.”

This is the Sagui that Dekel-Chen wants lawmakers to know. The Sagui who is so much more than a photo on a “MISSING” poster. Not just a baseball fan—he played on Israel’s junior national team as a kid. He’s also a tinkerer. He fixed broken-down farm equipment by hand. And Sagui is also a dad—to two little girls, with a third on the way.

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On Oct. 7 he locked his wife and kids in a safe room and tried to defend his farm. When the day was done, he’d gone missing. The only reason his father knows Sagui was taken is because other hostages, people who have been released, have seen him. But that was weeks ago.

So now, Dekel-Chen is going door to door with politicians—in Israel and in the U.S.—to plead his son’s case. Urge them to send in the Red Cross to make sure Sagui’s OK. Urge them to bring Sagui home. After showing them pictures, Dekel-Chen likes to leave mementos behind: one of those “MISSING” posters of his son and a pair of these dog tags the hostage families have been handing out.

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“It’s a powerful symbol of humanity really more than anything else,” he said. “In English, they say, ‘Bring them home.’ And then in Hebrew, there’s something that means ‘My heart is in Gaza.’ ”

On a recent episode of What Next, we listened to one family’s hostage story. Our conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Mary Harris: You’re an American citizen. Can you tell me the story of how you ended up moving to Kibbutz Nir Oz?

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Jonathan Dekel-Chen: I grew up in semi-rural Connecticut, a small town. I grew up in a community that mostly was not Jewish. But a fairly large number of Holocaust survivors and refugees from outside Germany settled there during and after the Second World War. And my parents were among them. My mother was a little girl when her family was miraculously able to escape from Nazi Germany in 1940. And my dad was a hardcore Holocaust survivor, having survived six years in Nazi labor camps and concentration camps. All of us kids of these Holocaust survivors grew up with a very strong Jewish identity. In my case, it manifests in this idea of eventually going to Israel and helping build what was a Jewish state, so I graduated high school and went on my way.

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What did Kibbutz Nir Oz offer to you? What did you love about it? What did your son love about it? He must have loved it because he stayed.

He very much loved it. It’s a way of life. A kibbutz, for those who don’t know, it’s a small cooperative farm. In our case, a community of about 440 people—multigenerational—in which it’s a shared fate and a shared life.

You pool your resources.

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Yes. And certainly in 1982 when I wound up there, it was very much that. It was a classic conventional kibbutz, where you shared your resources. Life was very thin in the creature comforts. But that spoke to me because it was this combined effort to make the desert bloom and to be there for one another in a very positive way, in a multigenerational way.

Did you grow things?

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Oh, most definitely, yeah. I’ve held a series of jobs. After my mandatory army service, I became what I would hope to be an expert in irrigation. After that, agricultural machinery. And Sagui was one of my four kids. He really grew up in the agricultural machine shop, as my tagalong in the fields, supervising and servicing machinery. Our kibbutz is a really cutting edge—or it was, until Oct. 7—high-tech agricultural enterprise.

In his professional life, he has really manifested that love of building things. His pet entrepreneurial project, with his wife, is to take old buses and refurbish them into usable objects. And the morning of Oct.7, he was actually doing that work. It was a Saturday morning, also a holiday morning. He kissed his wife and girls good morning and went off to the kibbutz machine shop, which is about 200–250 yards from his home. And his intent was to continue working—he had two of those buses he was working on simultaneously to convert to classrooms—when he first spotted a group of heavily armed terrorists that had penetrated into the kibbutz.

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I know that you were not there on the kibbutz on Oct. 7 but that Sagui was one of the first people to send out a message to the group chat, saying, “There are gunmen here.” As a resident, did you get that message from your own son? Is that how you learned what was going on?

I was in Baltimore on my way to an academic conference that day. We were woken up—myself and my wife—early in the morning, at about 6 a.m., by a friend in Boston who had been seeing on the news that something really bad was happening in the region of Nir Oz. She asked us if we knew what was going on. Of course, I had no idea what she was talking about. But very quickly, once I turned on my phone, I did see what was going on. We have group chats for the kibbutz through WhatsApp, and there were multiple chats going on.

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So you had this, like, live documentation. How awful to read through it.

Uh, the worst moment of my life up to that moment, yes. I immediately called my daughter, who also lives on the kibbutz, with her young family. They were able to pick up. I had a very brief conversation with her husband, actually. They were all sheltering in their attached bomb shelters. And he basically gave me a quick rundown that the kibbutz was under assault and there were literally terrorists outside their door.

When did you realize what had happened with Sagui?

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I asked my son-in-law if he knew anything about Sagui. And he said that they had lost contact with him at around 9:30 that morning, so roughly two and a half hours.

Your heart must have stopped.

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My world stopped at that moment. We also didn’t really know what was happening with his wife and two little girls. We didn’t know if they were alive until much later that afternoon.

When the dust settled after the attack, Jonathan Dekel-Chen was able to piece together just how devastating it had all been for the kibbutz, and for his family. His ex-wife, the mom of his kids, had been injured and kidnapped—but she managed to escape right before being taken into Gaza. His daughter and her family survived. Dekel-Chen says Sagui disappeared while fighting off Hamas militants. Of the 400 residents of Nir Oz, around 20 were killed and an estimated 80 were taken as hostages.

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The reason they were able to take so many of us was because the IDF never came.

Because hostages from Nir Oz made up such a large proportion of those who were taken on Oct. 7, they also made up a significant proportion of those who were released in November during the temporary cease-fire. And I know that you weren’t expecting your son to be among those released because he’s a man of fighting age who had indeed fought with Hamas. But can you tell me about that moment when you learned that people from your community would be returning?

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Let me frame it this way: First, I was thrilled. These were my friends, some of my co-workers over the years, young women who I had seen grow up—they’re the age of my kids—and little ones who were dear friends of my grandkids on the kibbutz. So I couldn’t have been happier. And recognizing that the alternative was much worse. The second-worst moment of my life so far was eulogizing, a few days after Oct. 7, at the funeral of a family of six. The Siman Tov Kedem family.

The entire family?

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Grandmother, her son, his wife, and their three little children. They were all dear friends. Dear, dear friends. They were my kids’ friends. They were my grandchildren’s friends. The father was shot outside of his home. The mother was shot through the door. They couldn’t open the door. Then they set the house on fire, the terrorists.

And that’s how the children died?

The three little kids most definitely died of asphyxiation. And I was asked to eulogize them because of my closeness with all the family. And Carol, the grandmother, has been my friend since 1981, an American citizen, by the way, from Philly.

How did you begin to do that?

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I couldn’t write a word. I tried the night before, and I couldn’t write a word. I don’t know. It’s kind of a blur, to be honest with you.

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It sounds like what you’re saying is that when you got the news that many hostages from your kibbutz would be released, your gratitude was partially about not having to do another service like that for these people.

Exactly. Because there were entire families who were taken. There could have been more funerals, and there still may be more funerals like this. We’ve already got death notices for people that we believed were hostages but over the course of the last two weeks, we’ve gotten notification from Hamas that they’re dead.

And you must, of course, think of your son too.

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Every day, every minute. I do know as of about two and a half weeks ago that he is alive, but every moment that passes, who knows? They’re not receiving medical care. There are bombs falling around them. So, there is a real feeling of distress amongst any hostage family.

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Around the same time Jonathan Dekel-Chen was in D.C. meeting with U.S. officials to push for the release of his son, a very different meeting was taking place in Israel—a group of hostage families and released hostages themselves met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war Cabinet to discuss bringing more hostages home. Leaked audio from this meeting shows that it was tense, with family members shouting at the prime minister. One family member described the meeting to the press, saying, “It was a model of how the country of Israel is run. We were invited for 3. They showed up at 3:45. They got us mad and we fought amongst ourselves.”

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Look, these are desperate times for hostage families, magnified by the fact that we’re getting now direct testimony from the hostages who have returned about how horrific the conditions are. As far as our government is concerned, keep in mind that meeting only happened because of a public shaming the day before by a group of hostage families in a very well-televised press conference, demanding a meeting. And we are perfectly aware that in the first few days of the IDF assault, Netanyahu and others did not say much of anything about the fate of the hostages. He and others were forced to do so by the public outcry led by the hostage families. So, there’s not a lot of good news coming out of Israel in terms of the solidarity between the hostage families and our leadership.

Hamas has detained some hostages in previous conflicts for years.

That’s right.

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Are you preparing for that in some way? Like, how do you even prepare?

I don’t think about that. That’s not what I intend to happen. All of the hostage families, of course, we’re painfully aware of that history. And we’re doing everything we can to make sure that that does not happen.

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Yeah. I wanted your perspective on something because I’ve had a number of guests on my show who’ve said they don’t believe the destruction of Hamas is possible. They think the idea of Hamas, the idea of this struggle—whether it’s the actual militarized group or the idea—it’s so embedded at this point that its elimination just isn’t going to happen. And I know you’ve said that is what you need to happen here. So, when you hear someone say this goal is not possible, what do you think?

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Look, ideologies and fanaticism and hatreds are extremely difficult to eradicate. It’s a long-term process, mostly through education, which isn’t instantaneous. I have no illusions that religious fundamentalism of all kinds—not just Muslim—is very difficult to defeat, or very difficult to eradicate. That is simply true, and I would not argue against that. But there’s a different truth here, which is we’ve reached an inflection point in which that can no longer be tolerated. Because this is the price. This kind of savagery that was perpetrated on Oct. 7. What I would hope could happen here is that they must not allow Hamas—this governing authority that planned, funded, and executed this massacre and this mass hostage taking—for the good of the world, to be victorious.

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There have been some hostage families who have been very explicit that they don’t want their relatives’ circumstances to be used as a justification for mass death in Gaza. How do you think about that, about your son’s safety, about the calls to not eliminate so many thousands of people at this moment?

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Well, I wish none of this were happening and none of it was necessary. And I agree with those voices coming from the hostage families. Not in his name, not in Sagui’s name. Don’t pretend that this is happening solely because of the release of the hostages. The war and the execution of the war have their own motives and their own justifications in the eyes of our own leadership, Israeli leadership. Israel’s leadership has a moral and political responsibility to get these hostages home that is completely separate from the conduct of this war.

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Clearly there’s been a lot of loss of Palestinian lives over the course of the last two months. I don’t think you’ll find a hostage family that rejoices in that. Absolutely not. And I absolutely agree with them. Don’t be doing this in the name of my son. You have no right to do this. What needs to be done to Hamas needs to be done but not in his name. He would never agree to that either.

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I worry for you, though. I worry because your son’s still in Gaza, as far as we know. I think some would worry that his life is on the line as bombs fall. And it’s a terrible potential price. You must think about that every day.

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I think about it all the time. And hence, I and many other hostage families are demanding from the Israeli government to—whatever their other war goals might be—do everything now to get the hostages home. And logic would dictate that the surest way to get them home alive is through some kind of negotiated process. Look, my endgame—and I’m sure it’s similar to all other hostage families—is for Sagui to walk down, and I dearly hope you can walk on this two feet, some hallway or into some room, and his two little girls will leap into his arms and he will meet his infant daughter. And I’m willing to do anything and demand everything for that to happen, for Sagui and the other 130 some odd hostages.

It sounds like you picture exactly what it’ll be like.

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I think everyone has that. All the hostage families and their loved ones have a picture in their mind of what they’re working towards. Because the alternative is horrendous. Unspeakable.

I do want to make sure that however we end this interview, we return to your son and his humanity and all of the joy he brings you. I was noticing that most articles about Sagui are accompanied by the same image. He’s very handsome. He’s bathed in sunlight, and he’s got this smile. It’s just lighting him up from inside. Can you tell me about this image, and how it became the one you shared?

It is a very, very characteristic photo of Sagui. And the light shines out of him. He’s hard-nosed, but he is among the most optimistic people I’ve ever met. He really does believe that if you do the right things, then life will improve for people—people who you know and people you don’t know. In a way, he is the living definition of altruism, doing stuff for people that you don’t even know. He lights up the room. He lights up every space. I don’t know of a single person who has not met him and come away feeling that the world’s a better place because people like Sagui are in it.

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QOSHE - When the Israeli Hostages Came Home, His Son Didn’t - Mary Harris
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When the Israeli Hostages Came Home, His Son Didn’t

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16.12.2023

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When Jonathan Dekel-Chen goes to Washington these days—and he goes to Washington a lot —he brings photos. Mostly of his 35-year-old son, Sagui. He wishes he could bring more.

A lot of the photos that we’ve had for Sagui and from my other kids and grandkids were burned on Oct. 7,” Dekel-Chen said. “It was not just a murderous rampage and hostage taking, it was full scale looting and destruction.”

Dekel-Chen and his son are American citizens. But they lived on an Israeli kibbutz, Nir Oz. When Hamas fighters invaded, Nir Oz was one of the first places they went. Sagui has been missing ever since.

“I’d love to share all kinds of photos: him as a little boy, as a baseball player. He was one of the few Israelis who actually knows how to play baseball by virtue of my addiction to the sport. And he bought into it, thank goodness, when he was a boy, so I’d have a playmate.”

This is the Sagui that Dekel-Chen wants lawmakers to know. The Sagui who is so much more than a photo on a “MISSING” poster. Not just a baseball fan—he played on Israel’s junior national team as a kid. He’s also a tinkerer. He fixed broken-down farm equipment by hand. And Sagui is also a dad—to two little girls, with a third on the way.

Advertisement

Advertisement

On Oct. 7 he locked his wife and kids in a safe room and tried to defend his farm. When the day was done, he’d gone missing. The only reason his father knows Sagui was taken is because other hostages, people who have been released, have seen him. But that was weeks ago.

So now, Dekel-Chen is going door to door with politicians—in Israel and in the U.S.—to plead his son’s case. Urge them to send in the Red Cross to make sure Sagui’s OK. Urge them to bring Sagui home. After showing them pictures, Dekel-Chen likes to leave mementos behind: one of those “MISSING” posters of his son and a pair of these dog tags the hostage families have been handing out.

Advertisement

Advertisement

“It’s a powerful symbol of humanity really more than anything else,” he said. “In English, they say, ‘Bring them home.’ And then in Hebrew, there’s something that means ‘My heart is in Gaza.’ ”

On a recent episode of What Next, we listened to one family’s hostage story. Our conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Mary Harris: You’re an American citizen. Can you tell me the story of how you ended up moving to Kibbutz Nir Oz?

Advertisement

Advertisement

Jonathan Dekel-Chen: I grew up in semi-rural Connecticut, a small town. I grew up in a community that mostly was not Jewish. But a fairly large number of Holocaust survivors and refugees from outside Germany settled there during and after the Second World War. And my parents were among them. My mother was a little girl when her family was miraculously able to escape from Nazi Germany in 1940. And my dad was a hardcore Holocaust survivor, having survived six years in Nazi labor camps and concentration camps. All of us kids of these Holocaust survivors grew up with a very strong Jewish identity. In my case, it manifests in this idea of eventually going to Israel and helping build what was a Jewish state, so I graduated high school and went on my way.

Advertisement

What did Kibbutz Nir Oz offer to you? What did you love about it? What did your son love about it? He must have loved it because he stayed.

He very much loved it. It’s a way of life. A kibbutz, for those who don’t know, it’s a small cooperative farm. In our case, a community of about 440 people—multigenerational—in which it’s a shared fate and a shared life.

You pool your resources.

Advertisement

Yes. And certainly in 1982 when I wound up there, it was very much that. It was a classic conventional kibbutz, where you shared your resources. Life was very thin in the creature comforts. But that spoke to me because it was this combined effort to make the desert bloom and to be there for one another in a very positive way, in a multigenerational way.

Did you grow things?

Advertisement

Advertisement

Oh, most definitely, yeah. I’ve held a series of jobs. After my mandatory army service, I became what I would hope to be an expert in irrigation. After that, agricultural machinery. And Sagui was one of my four kids. He really grew up in........

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