Listen to this full episode of The New Abnormal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon and Stitcher.

Casey DeSantis’ dreams of becoming Melania Trump have finally been squashed.

It’s unclear what Ron DeSantis’ biggest cheerleader will do next after spending the last few months following her husband around Iowa and New Hampshire as he dodged and dissed haters on the campaign trail, but, according to The New Abnormal host Danielle Moodie, there’s no doubt that Mrs. DeSantis is disheartened.

“Well, it’s finally happened,” Moodie says on this week’s episode. “The ‘Never Back Down’ candidate, Rob, from the great petri dish of Florida, has finally rolled his way out of the Republican primary. Ron DeSantis, friends, he is out, and no one can be more disappointed in him than his wife.”

Moodie adds that despite spending more than $150 million, his campaign couldn’t even teach DeSantis “how to smile, laugh normally, or just have casual conversation with children. He is just effectively a loser. And then after being debased consistently by Donald Trump, what does he do? Turns around and backs his man.”

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Then, host Andy Levy talks with editor Amanda Carpenter of Protect Democracy about a new report she co-authored, titled “The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025.”

“Why do we feel so tired when we have to go through this again?” Carpenter explains. “I think it’s helpful to remind people you are tired, because if you’ve been in the anti-Trump coalition or just, you know, the sane part of America, you’ve been at this for almost 10 years.”

“This is the third time in three elections where Donald Trump will be on the ballot. You have every right to be tired, but your fatigue is what Trump and his allies are absolutely banking on.”

Plus! Author Benjamin Herold reveals why he chose to cover cities—including Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, and Pittsburgh—in his book, Disillusioned: Five Families and the Unraveling of America's Suburbs, and what makes them similar and different.

Listen to this full episode of The New Abnormal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon and Stitcher.