Listen to this full episode of The New Abnormal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon and Stitcher.

After a week full of frightened jurors and very public concerns over witness intimidation, The New Abnormal co-hosts Danielle Moodie and Andy Levy have some advice for the judge handling former President Donald Trump’s New York City hush-money trial: Treat it exactly the same as a high-profile mob case.

“I really don’t know what these judges and the media are waiting for,” Moodie says on this week’s episode. “Are they waiting for people to just start disappearing? Are they waiting for some death and grave harm to come to people to recognize the stakes at which Donald Trump is playing with right now?”

“Look, at least when he’s sleeping, he can’t intimidate anyone, so let him sleep, I guess,” Levy agreed. “But this has to be gotten a hold of, and there have to be consequences at some point before somebody innocent pays the price.”

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Then, a conversation with Mehdi Hasan about his new media venture, Zeteo, which launched on Monday.

“I wanted to build an actual enduring institution, especially for progressives and for people on the left,” Hasan said of the publication. “I feel like the right have colonized all of the online commercial media space, the right conservatives. A lot of the grifters have set up media companies and businesses and platforms in a way that progressives, leftists, even liberals haven’t successfully done.

He added: “I just thought, ‘You know, what, if not now, when? If not me, who? Why don’t we try it?’”

Plus! Jonathan V. Last, an editor at The Bulwark, joins the program to talk about his recent presidential rankings—and why Ronald Reagan unfairly gets the blame for what happened under successive Republican administrations.

Listen to this full episode of The New Abnormal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon and Stitcher.